Moore uses joke by juxtaposition to make several points--and opens himself up to criticism that he juggles the truth like the Bush-boys. For the sake of entertainment Moore loses the cogency of his political argument even though his points are well taken. Remember Michael, the end is inherent to the means. Other than that--the movie was a docu-drama that depicted hypocrisy dictating horror all in the name of our national karma--may God help us all! May we be able to correct and undo the horrible things the U.S. has done in Iraq out of vendetta, profiteering, and misdirected reprisal.

I have already read most of the information that was presented in MM's 911 movie. What was most striking to me was the footage of what the Iraqis are actually going through. It reminded me of a lunch I was having during the first Gulf war. I was there eating a sandwich and watching CNN overhead when a scene of an errant cruise missile that wiped out an entire apartment complex was shown. Many families were wiped out and several Iraqi women started cursing the Americans behind the camera lens. When that flashed on the screen a "very enlighted" professional looking individual started to laugh his head off. I bet that guy was "shocked" when those four mercinaries were killed and chopped up a few months ago. I have to agree with MM that this counrty has become extremely stupid, at least politically. I guess that is the price we pay for being so arrogant.

I love how you believe MM's outlook on what the Iraqis are "actually going through". MM said it best when he said "this film is only my opinion it could be right or wrong". What are the Iraqis really going through skip? From what i hear the schools are open and power is being returned to most areas. If I wanted to make a documentary on the poverty all of america lived in I could go to NYC and find enough homeless people to fill a documentary and label it as truth. You want to know what is actually going on in Iraq you need to go there. No one is unbiased not even MM (that was sarcasm).

Ben

Well it was Independence Night in Iraq--the glorious event was as covert as a U.S. presidential cabinet meeting and, at least, allowed Mr. Bremer and his associates to get outa Dodge safely. I believe, by definition, each sovereign nation needs to have a postal service--it will be interesting to see if the new Iraqi government can deliver the mail--perhaps the new U.S. Ambassador replacing Bremer and the hundred-some thousand U.S. G.I.s and N.G.s can help in that capacity--as well as try to keep the personnel of the new Iraqi government alive.

There is the requisite right-wing knee-jerk outrage but let's look at the facts. I have yet to see this hugely successful film but have seen Mr. Moore grilled by spin doctors and each time he come's out smelling like a rose. They'll start (as Stephanopoulos did in his interview) 'isn't it misleading when you say...'. When Michael Moore states the verifiable facts there is no rejoinder and never a acknowledgement that he was right. I intend on seeing this film a hundred times. At least as many times as it takes to take the funk of the state sponsored evangelism of 'The Passion'. Glad to have you back Mark,
RM NYC

You call fact what Moore calls opinion...where is the spin now?

No, I say Michael Moore's opinion is supported by facts. Next time one of the neo-con fiends actually let's Mr. Moore respond to an accusation, listen. Quote his factual response as opposed to the false accusation.
RM NYC

Mark,

Congratulations on your 1 year anniversary, I hope to have you around for many more.

I saw Farenheit 911 and I have to say that it was great, worthy of film of the year, not just documentary oty. It was amazing to see people in this Conservative stronghold of Austin, TX stand and give a standing ovation at the end of the film, made me realize that I am not alone which sometimes I feel I am. Being from the DC/MD/VA area, I am not accustomed to being so isolated politically, and maybe I still am, but at least I haad the opportunity to see that everyone here is not as rabid Republican as I thought. The thing that gets me is that nothing in this film surprised me because I am informed but most people in the theatre gasped at stuff that was going on like they could never imagine what they were seeing. I have never seen and/or heard so many people crying in a movie in my life during some of the scenes.

What was most satisfying to me though was to have my wife say to me after the movie that, "now I think I understand why you get so upset when youre reading about that stuff". Anyone who, after seeing that movie, votes for Bush no longer deserves to be a citizen of this country, in my opinion.

I will be going to the Moveon.org/Michael Moore meetup tonight to hear what others think about the film

You know, normally I dont do these types of things but Im calling Ben out, well no Im not. Im just calling Ben an idiot and if you were here face to face I would still call you an idiot or maybe as the VP likes to say, a "Fu*&%$ Idiot". You probably didnt even see the movie, if you did you probably would know more about what is opinion and what is fact. The film is a documentary with actual footage. Read my lips moron: There are no actors in the film, all assertions are backed up with documents or film footage, and even though what he puts out may be in his words, it is still FACT!!!

They're building schools, so what!! Even a rowdy college fraternity gives blood between bars and raping sorrority girls druing pledge week.

Its amazing how people like you can see dirt in everything but your own kind, yes I labeled you, actually, you labeled yourself.

Fu*&%$# Moron!!!!

Love how you made a big deal of Jeb voting for his brother but not about Gore voting for himself...not a good arguement.

Good point, Ben, but one major difference:

The only reason why the Florida electors were being challenged at all was because of a Florida election system that the United States Supreme Court found hopelessly unconstitutional.

Al Gore cannot possibly be blamed for Florida's messed-up elections. Governor Jeb Bush, on the other hand....

Congrats again, Mark--you are the epitome of what grassroots is all about--you sacrifice for principle--and now Farenheit 911 gives wider audience to your historical efforts--perhaps your greatest contributions to history are straight ahead as you cling to the Constitution and the rule of Law in defending the rights of all.

That is true...he was involved indirectly...i dont think he came up with the ballots and I dont think he threw out any votes personally? So he wasnt directly involved but i suppose it did "happen on his watch". congrats on your 1 year.

The impetus of pragmatism is intent and doesn't always manifest itself in results within a convenient time-line--but Mark's efforts as well as those of all perceiving Americans will roust the scalywags and the Orwellian proponents of inverse and exaggerated truths in due time as the Universe dictates(hopefully this fall). Perhaps America needs a good dose of George W. Bush to know exactly what we don't want--and to never let this horrible mistake ever happen again--much in the way an alcoholic has to hit bottom before seeking help. The truth will set us free--so that is what we should seek--and Mark Levine helps in that effort by exploring pros and cons and extracting fact from fiction and, in that way, fighting the good fight.

Man I just read johns comment...pretty hateful guy. MM said himself the movie portrays his opinion. Therefore the factual events that happened could be explained from a different point of view. You are making it sound as if MM is unbiased and I do hope you have more common sense than that. Another person could make a documentary on just the opposite of what MM did and you would then believe it because its actual events without actors? do you see the logic of what you are saying?

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